New toy for the lathe

[TerryWerm]

As previously mentioned, I have a Logan 200 lathe. I also have a Clausing 8520 vertical mill and a horizontal mill that is a bit of a morphydite. The horizontal mill is the reason for this post, though it is is not the primary subject.

This mill is a no-name mill but I do know some of its history. No manufacturer's name on it anywhere, only a tag from the machinery supply that sold it, which was the Satterlee Company in Minneapolis. Satterlee is no longer in business, but I remember picking things up there when I worked for a machine shop for a short time in the late 70's.

This machine was originally purchased by Northfield Foundry and Machine of Northfield Minnesota - same town where Jesse James and his gang were thwarted during an attempted robbery of the bank there. Jesse and his brother Frank escaped to Missouri, but the Younger brothers were later captured near present day La Salle Minnesota.

The machine was used by its purchaser for many years but was eventually damaged when the company endured the ravages of a fire. The mill fell through the wooden floor on which it sat and crashed to the basement, miraculously saving it from the heat of the fire. After the fire the machine was totally rebuilt and scraped in again. One of the crank handles was bent and was replaced with a shop made crank that is rather unique.

Eventually the machine outlived its usefulness there and it was presented as a retirement gift to the gentleman that rebuilt it. He eventually made a mount for a Fray All Angle head so that it became both a vertical and a horizontal milling machine. He eventually passed on and his wife sold it to a friend of mine as part of a package deal. That friend sold it to me for $700.

The horizontal mill has a NT30 taper drive, and it came with one 1"x10" arbor. Since then, I stumbled on some NOS arbors and purchased another 1"x10" as well as two 7/8"x10" arbors. One of them was so old that the sleeves were 'glued' to the arbor by the anti-rust oil that it was covered with. It took me a lot of patience and about 3 weeks to get all the old gunk dissolved and get everything apart.

Many of the cutters available now come from China or Asia at the least, and fit a 22mm arbor, slightly smaller than 7/8". So, I wish to grind one arbor down 0.225" to get to the 22mm diameter. The small difference in diameter should allow the 7/8" sleeves to work just fine on the arbor.

I am not a great fan of doing any grinding on the lathe, but sometimes you just have to do things that you do not relish and there have been a few times where toolpost grinding would have been very useful. Toolpost grinders tend to be expensive, so my plan was to have the above-mentioned friend grind the arbor down to the new diameter, for which I would pay him. I just happened to stumble on the toolpost grinder shown below on eBay for $225 shipped and I soon made it mine.

I will make a post on my grinding adventures next summer when it warms up again and I can tackle that project. In the meantime I will get it set up on my lathe and acquire a spare 3" wheel for it as well as a proper wheel dresser. It came with spacers to mount it at the proper height, but I may need to make some new ones for it to work on my lathe.

[34_40]

That's cool. When I got my lathe it came with a grinder but I have never even tried to mount it! I'll be interested to watch you get yours setup and running. Maybe you'll inspire me to try mine.?.?.?

[TerryWerm]

I am looking forward to giving it a whirl. I think I will try a couple of test runs first on some heat-treated drill rod. I figure I can center drill the ends, then take a skim cut to clean up and true the diameter to the centers. After that I will heat treat it and probably leave it glass hard. I do expect that it will warp from heating, but it should give me an accurate test when it comes to grinding. The hardest part will be keeping the ways covered and keeping grinding residue off of those surfaces. Keeping the test part or parts short should help with the warpage issue. I figure no more than 6" long per part, maybe even less.

[chips and more]

Maybe have a vacuum with some kinda hood to help with swarf control? I did some wood turning on my "metal" lathe once. Notice I said once. Never again! That sawdust went everywhere. It's not like metal chips that easily fall. Sawdust likes to float around. And also wick up the oil.

[TerryWerm]

Been there with the wood turning and did not like the mess afterward. Thankfully sawdust is not abrasive like grinding dust.

Most folks try to keep the ways covered when grinding on the lathe. At least the grinding dust is heavy enough that it should not float around in the air. Some sort of a vacuum pickup would be ideal, but that and the grinder is a lot to pack into a small space on the carriage of a small lathe.

[4GSR]

A couple of tips that may help. If you have a mister available, set it up and use the mist to calm own the grinding dust. the last time I did some cylindrical grinding, that what I did. You can buy the spray nozzles with the metering valve off of Amazon or even eBay cheap, or used to be. Just need a jug to stick the suction hose in with water mixed with your favorite mist fluid.
Rig up some sort of wheel dresser  keep the wheel sharp. After a few passes, the grinding wheel will become flat and won't grind like you want it to. The most you will be able to remove at a time is maybe two tenths off the diameter per pass if your lucky. Take your time and things will work out.

[TerryWerm]

I also came to the realization that grinding down 0.225" off the diameter means removing 0.1125 off the radius, but for grinding that is still quite a bit. The arbor is not hard, so I will try turning it down to maybe 0.001" oversize then take it the final few tenths by grinding.

The only bad thing about turning it is that I would like to use carbide, but there is a 1/8" keyslot running nearly the length of the arbor, creating an interrupted cut on the lathe. I will give it a try and see what happens.

[TerryWerm]

I got thinking about this - and realized that something was very wrong. I can use a 7/8" wrench in place of a 22mm wrench and vice versa. That means that the difference between the two is far less than 0.225".  Turns out the difference is 0.225 mm, not inches. 0.225 mm works out to 0.0089" which is a far better number! A pass or two with a cutting tool followed by a few passes with the grinder should do the trick.

Here is the math for amount of material to be removed:
Arbor diameter: 7/8"  =  0.875"
Convert 0.875" to mm: 0.875 x 25.4  =  22.225 mm  (25.4 mm to the inch)
Desired arbor diameter:  22 mm
Difference in size:  22.225 - 22  = 0.225 mm.
Convert 0.225 mm to imperial:
  0.225 / 25.4 =  0.00885826771653543307086614173228"
Round off to the nearest tenth:  0.0089"

I do have a caliper that will measure in metric or imperial, but for something like this I much prefer to use a micrometer. I have two 1" mikes, one reading in thousandths and the other reading tenths but I do not have a micrometer that will measure in metric. Thus the necessity to convert the numbers back and forth.

[4GSR]

That little bit, I would suggest grinding. Trying to turn that may work, may not. If I was doing that, I'd have that cut undersized in a heartbeat!

[TerryWerm]

I decided I want to get this grinder all ready to use beforehand. Ordering a spare wheel and belt would be a good idea.

Finding the wheels was easy, although the same wheel is no longer available, the difference being the center hole which is only 3/8" on the current wheel. I can get the same wheel but with a 1/2" hole. Making a sleeve is easy peasy, so no worries there.

The hard part is going to be the drive belt. It is a flat belt of what appears to be a rubberized woven fabric. 5/16" or 8mm wide. Thickness varies a bit but is about 0.018" or 0.5mm. If placed on a tapered mandrel it comes out to a nearly perfect 3" diameter, which translates into a 9.42" circumference or length. My initial searches at this point have not turned up a viable replacement.

Anybody here ever find a good source for such belts?

[TerryWerm]

That little bit, I would suggest grinding. Trying to turn that may work, may not. If I was doing that, I'd have that cut undersized in a heartbeat!

Grinding the entire 0.0089" would certainly take longer, but the chances of cutting undersize are greatly reduced if not eliminated

Cutting with a lathe tool also incorporates pressures that will cause deflection while cutting. Deflection would result in an uneven surface to grind down afterward. 

The interrupted cut due to the keyslot could potentially set up some chatter that would cause issues as well, especially on my not-so-heavily-built 10" Logan.

I must agree with you, grinding the whole depth may be the best way to handle it. 

[TerryWerm]

Sure enough, I can get belts through McMaster-Carr, custom made to the length I need. Cost is not horrible, about $9 for a belt to fit this grinder.

I guess I am all set!

[4GSR]

I was going to say, try McMaster-Carr. That's where I've bought spare belts for my Dumore TP grinder from.  They may also have the grinding wheels you need, too.

[34_40]

The hard part is going to be the drive belt. It is a flat belt of what appears to be a rubberized woven fabric. 5/16" or 8mm wide. Thickness varies a bit but is about 0.018" or 0.5mm. If placed on a tapered mandrel it comes out to a nearly perfect 3" diameter, which translates into a 9.42" circumference or length. My initial searches at this point have not turned up a viable replacement.

Anybody here ever find a good source for such belts?

Do you have a vacuum cleaner shop in your area?  There was a good one next to where we used to live in Mass.  they had a wall hanging assortment that just fascinated me!  Unfortunately I'm in the so'west now...  but maybe up your way someone has a shop?

[TerryWerm]

Do you have a vacuum cleaner shop in your area?  There was a good one next to where we used to live in Mass.  they had a wall hanging assortment that just fascinated me!  Unfortunately I'm in the so'west now...  but maybe up your way someone has a shop?

We used to have a good one, but it closed up a couple years ago when the owner retired.

There is a drawback to the belts that are 'custom made' at McMaster-Carr, and that is that they are custom made if the lengths are in whole inches. My belt comes out at 9.4" so I have to figure out if longer or shorter fits the best.

The last option is to make my own like this guy does in this video:

It looks to be a little bit of work, but should produce a workable belt. Only one way to find out I guess.