Place your ideal CAD program here for others to consider.
I'll start with the two I use, one of them on a daily bases, the other I'm still learning as I get a chance.
First one is Draftsight. The only drawback is, you have to pay a annual fee to keep it active. Luckily, I got on it when it was still free to use, now I pay $150 a year to use it. For my part time business, it pays for itself.
It's modeled after AutoCAD Lite, most of it works just like Lite, which makes convenient for those moving over to a different platform.
The other CAD program I trying to learn is Fusion 360. The 2-D and 3-D world are different from each other. Me, being a AutoCAD user for over 30 years, I'm having a heck of a time grasping and running with Fusion 360.
I have some training in Solidworks, but that is not a program I can afford to use.
Anyways, Lets us know what CAD software you use.
Stone tablet and chalk or tee square and triangles don't count.
And what is wrong with a stone tablet? Instead of chalk I use a hammer and chisel. I get some exercise out of using it, and my drawings don't fall apart if they are accidentally left out in the rain.
All kidding aside, I used to use my old favorite, Autodesk's QuickCAD Release 7 from back in 2000. It is 2D only. A couple of years later the same product got a new name, AutoSketch and I have version 9 from 2004. It does have some 3D tools that are a bit clunky but it works great for 2D work. Sadly I don't know anywhere that you can get it anymore.
I am concerned that as Windows evolves I may not be able to use it any longer. Thankfully I can load a virtual machine for Windows 10 and run it just fine.
I use eMachine Shop (https://www.emachineshop.com/ (https://www.emachineshop.com/))
It's only 2D, but it's completely free and has has a ton of video tutorials.
It does have its limitations, but sometimes I use it to draw up parts and can see it in a 3D rendering to see if it looks like what I want.
I believe they also offer a better paid version.
Terry,
You mention Autosketch. I have a copy of version 9 but it won't run on anything Windows 7 or later?, I think it is. I have a old Compact laptop computer I have it installed on. And the only reason for that, I have a bunch of drawings files in Autosketch format that cannot be converted up to a *.dwg file any other way. So I do it on that old laptop. Which reminds me, I haven't finished the conversion process on those drawing files. It's slow and just guessing about 200 files that need to be converted.
Jimmy,
I didn't open up the emachineshop CAD program. I deal with lots of parts and assemblies and this cloud based program would not work for me. I would end up with a flood of email quotes for machining the parts I would create and store on their cloud. Of course, I may be wrong here IDK. But definitely be good for that one or two parts needed here and there.
I use fusion 360. I pay for the yearly subscription (about $650USD). I have become quite proficient with its 2D & 3D CAD, and 2 & 3 axis CAM. It was not very difficult to learn. There are several people who offer multi-part tutorials on YouTube to get a basic understanding of the 3D modelling. And NYC CNC has always done great tutorials on the CAM. My counterpart uses mastercam. I tried using it but can't get a grasp on it. I'm told it's far superior but I just haven't taken the time to learn it yet. I likely will as our mastercam was pirated and not $650 a year... although as a CNC machining business, $650 a year ain't much... I like fusion. It can be frustrating at times, but it's done everything I've needed so far.
AutoCAD still offers a free version for hobby and educational use, it's quite limited, but manageable.
Quote from: 4GSR on May 04, 2024, 05:16 PMTerry,
You mention Autosketch. I have a copy of version 9 but it won't run on anything Windows 7 or later?, I think it is.
I have it running on two different Windows 10 computers. It runs just fine on both, but really smokes on my laptop with gobs of RAM and a 2 TB SSD drive!
I don't use their cloud based program, it's downloaded on my computer and I can save my drawing there as well. I could submit drawings for quotes if I choose, but never have. Files can be saved in a variety of different format extensions as well.
HMmmm.. I just use pencil and paper. It's a mechanical pencil tho! LOL :smiley_wheelchair: :smilie_tongue_updown: Once I get the next shop setup I want to put in a dry erase board so I can do drawing on the fly as it were then simply wipe it away. It works for me, I am not at the same level as you folks for sure.
I use white boards alllll the time.
Quote from: Adasha_Machining on May 05, 2024, 09:01 AMI use white boards alllll the time.
It seems a natural to me! Instead of little slips of notepads and clipboards like I have now. 1 board at each machine to track the progress as it happens, that should make me smile, LOL... I don't want much. :smiley_chinrub:
Quote from: 34_40 on May 05, 2024, 08:58 AMHMmmm.. I just use pencil and paper. It's a mechanical pencil tho! LOL :smiley_wheelchair: :smilie_tongue_updown: Once I get the next shop setup I want to put in a dry erase board so I can do drawing on the fly as it were then simply wipe it away. It works for me, I am not at the same level as you folks for sure.
Same level ?
I use CAD because my drawing skills stink (crap, now we need a skunk smiley. LOL)
Even my stick men look bad. :smiley_tooth:
Shawn, You will eventually want to invest into Mastercam. But being a small as you are now, it's obvious you don't have time to learn it. You'll probably have to hire someone with Mastercam knowledge to run it for you. As you get more CNC machines you will definitely need it. Rather it be Mastercam or one of the other programs out there, it will help you in the long run.
What's your reason for that, ken? Out of curiosity.
I find fusion to be fully capable - easier to program in some cases, as I have seen my employee, as well as my partner find themselves with odd, and inefficient tool paths that have sometimes broken cutters.
But, I digress. I chock that up to not being proficient enough in mastercam.
But again, I have access to mastercam, I just don't use it yet.
There's nothing wrong with not wanting to use it. I find it in use just about every where I've been over the years. I personally have no need for it nor how to use it. Just saying. Getting too old to learn anything new. :smiley_scooter: :smiley_wheelchair: Where's grampa with his cane emogy when you need it. :headbang:
I'm just asking your reasoning to suggest I'd prefer mastercam. The talking points, if you will. I'm not stuck in my ways. Certainly open to suggestion. Looking for examples and reasons.
All I need to know is where to get my leads from. I only use pencil CAD
"Billy G" :tickedoff: :tickedoff:
I use solidworks. I have a full on professional license for now - I am toying with the idea of going independent as a full time job. When the time comes that the insane annual fee is not tenable then I might try the hobbyist version of Solidworks - which I understand basically works the same way but with limited features. Probably works well enough for most home users. For the stuff I do for myself full on Soludworks is way over the top.
I was trained in drafting using pen and paper - and I'm glad for it. The schools don't teach drafting any more - they teach how to drive the software. I think it is assumed that most companies will teach how to lay out drawings the way the company wants.
Makes you wonder what the point of standards is, really.
[quote author=propforward link=msg=350 date=17149599
I was trained in drafting using pen and paper - and I'm glad for it. The schools don't teach drafting any more - they teach how to drive the software. I think it is assumed that most companies will teach how to lay out drawings the way the company wants.
Makes you wonder what the point of standards is, really.
[/quote] using pen and paper - and I'm glad for it. The schools don't teach drafting any more - they teach how to drive the software. I think it is assumed that most companies will teach how to lay out drawings the way the company wants.
Makes you wonder what the point of standards is, really.
[/quote]
I started using a "T" Square and triangles 65 years ago. After a few years I purchased a K&E arm machine. Then graduated to a K&E track machine. We called the paper Velumm that you'd make blue prints from.
Here's a picture of my Hamilton Drafting table that's in my basement office. That still receives lots of action today for drawing part prints, buildings, or laying out machinery. The drafting machine in on the left with an aluminum and clear blades. On the far top RH side is my trusty 1955 Machinist's Handbook,, Bible we'd call it. Left are circle and elliptical templates. Circle and beam Compasses for large circles. Triangles 30-60-90 degree along with a French Curve. Square root, Trig tables, and die maker's Radius Charts. Of course a slide rule and scales. Mechanical pencils in three different lead hardness. Horse hair drawing brush, spare leads, and sharpener.. Electric eraser & shield.. All that's needed.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/19F05B3D-E39C-452E-9BA7-856A2B210FFD.jpeg)
This may be old school. But it does get the job done. All this from a home hobbyist that owns a full three axis bed type CNC machine with digital options parked in his garage shop.....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/52C6A811-457B-4E17-9E88-DE0AA207A3C0.jpeg)
Quote from: propforward on May 05, 2024, 08:45 PMI was trained in drafting using pen and paper - and I'm glad for it. The schools don't teach drafting any more - they teach how to drive the software. I think it is assumed that most companies will teach how to lay out drawings the way the company wants.
Makes you wonder what the point of standards is, really.
Standards are out the window. I work with aerospace. Everyone has different ways of doing models and prints. And most of them are quite bad. 3D models with entire missing sections that can't be rendered. 2D prints missing entire sections of dimensions. Designs that aren't actually manufacturable... and so on.
Are standards really out the window or are they just different than before ??? They must somehow be held accountable ???
"Billy G"
The standards still exist - just not referred to by many. Which is a shame. Creating a correct drawing takes an element of craftsmanship, whether done on paper, vellum or CAD. It is not an easy or trivial thing.
Quote from: Adasha_Machining on May 06, 2024, 05:59 AMQuote from: propforward on May 05, 2024, 08:45 PMI was trained in drafting using pen and paper - and I'm glad for it. The schools don't teach drafting any more - they teach how to drive the software. I think it is assumed that most companies will teach how to lay out drawings the way the company wants.
Makes you wonder what the point of standards is, really.
Standards are out the window. I work with aerospace. Everyone has different ways of doing models and prints. And most of them are quite bad. 3D models with entire missing sections that can't be rendered. 2D prints missing entire sections of dimensions. Designs that aren't actually manufacturable... and so on.
I work in the subcontractor fabrication world. What comes across my desk from established, large companies is shockingly bad.
I can relate. The nuclear power plant I worked at had mechanical and electrical prints that were initially all hand drawn. One of my co-workers initially worked for a contractor that made the drawings, ran into his name on the prints all the time.
Over the years through identifying errors, modifications, and/or changes in OEM equipment we submitted a lot of drawing change forms. Usually, a small amended drawing addendum was made and attached to the master drawing set instead of a full change because corporate always did a "Cost benefit analysis" and always decided it wasn't worth the cost given the amount of time left on the Nuclear Regulatory License.
Problem is that all the initial 30 year licenses were extended to 40 years and when those extensions were about to expire, they increased them to basically unlimited.
It's all politically and corporate greed driven because no new plants are being built. Even the ones that were started have all been mothballed.
IMHO, one of these days this is going to result in another major nuclear accident in this country. Then all the politicians will demand that all the rest be shutdown resulting in a loss of between 25% to 30% of electrical generation capacity in the country.
Crap will really hit the fan then since all these wind mills and solar stations ain't gonna cut it.
What a shame it is that to move forward we stumbled and went backwards. I find a great sense of satisfaction and pleasure in hand drawing. I do it now for a hobby. People I know will have an idea but are incapable of drawing it. This is where my hobby comes in. I bring there idea to life.
It's fun to see their reaction to what I've done for them Very lucrative too.
"Billy G"
I fear I may have pushed us off topic. The main premise of this thread is CAD and where to get it. I somewhat enjoy discussing the changing face of engineering though - so if this should all be in a different thread I'd be glad to start one. Thoughts on that?
I love CAD by the way - but I very much appreciate the planning discipline that drafting instilled. I used to enjoy pen and ink, but prefer my computer for design and drawing these days. I'm faster and more accurate than I ever was. Wish I could say the same about our CAD guys at work.
I doubt anyone in this small group minds that we covered the history of drafting and design. I think it's one of the good features of a smaller group. If we drift a bit off center, it's still good. Since we have a variety of disciplines and the formats they use, it's good to discuss all the variety as well. IMHO. :smiley_typing:
This isn't practical machinist where drifting off is prohibited, or ridiculed because it's an amateur question...
You would have to go pretty far of the topic to be off topic here. We do this quite often. Here Drafting is drafting no matter how you accomplish it the end result is the same.
"Billy G"
I agree, drifting off course isn't really an issue. We could start a separate thread if necessary, but there isn't really any need.
I took a whole year of Drafting when I was in high school and I really enjoyed it. It was all pencil on paper. Never got to using a pen at all, but just for kicks we did do some actual blueprints where you drew on a special paper (I don't remember if it took a special pencil or pen) and when the drawing was all done you would roll it up and put it in a big plastic tube along with some ammonia. The paper would then turn blue everywhere except where you had drawn lines or characters, which showed up as white.
I drew many different projects in pencil but eventually moved to CAD. It was so much easier as CAD would do many calculated points for you. Yes, the charm of working with paper, pencil, T-square, triangles, French curves, compasses, eraser shields, etc., was gone, but when doing a full drawing CAD certainly has its advantages. And the TIME you could save!! Amazing stuff!
Quote from: TerryWerm on May 06, 2024, 11:08 PMI agree, drifting off course isn't really an issue. We could start a separate thread if necessary, but there isn't really any need.
Thanks for clarifying that your thoughts on runaway threads. Les us not forget how the machining industry of today evolved. CAD/CAM was the buzz word in the 1980's. And began with computer aided design. Before the computer was involved all engineering departments were rows of drafting tables that looked like the Hamilton in my basement office.
In my opinion, the best designers were once machinists. They understand the machining process of what it takes to machine a piece in steel. Always in the mindset making a part drawing easiest to produce...
Quote from: OldCarGuy on May 07, 2024, 05:05 PMIn my opinion, the best designers were once machinists. They understand the machining process of what it takes to machine a piece in steel. Always in the mindset making a part drawing easiest to produce...
As A CAD Designer of 20+ years now, Using NX (formerly Unigraphics), I credit it to having a Machining, and welding class tied to the CAD class I too at the Local Vo-Tech During HS. My Dad was also a Machinist, and always drilled into me, if you're not sure, Ask the Programmers/Operators/Machinists. I've had to "school" more than my share of engineers, in making stuff easier to make.
Back to swinging us way off topic - allow me to share grievances...
Our main aerospace customer must have a new designer/engineer...
Every corner has a fillet or chamfer, they've got 45° chamfers on inside corners... And is denoting drill sizes that don't exist all over the place... Tell me, what drill is a 0.557"??
The prints for the last 3 sample parts I've recieved in the past few days have been dismal...
Aaand, I don't normally have to do one off samples for these types of fixture/parts. So, they're obviously designing and testing the design. Not normal.
Guhring Drills #9005570060000 (.557-.6000) That's what a .557 Drill Bit is. It's an aerospace Spot Drill
"Billy G"
I promise this designer doesn't know that. It's a thru hole, anyways. None of the other drill holes are common sizes either.
Guhring makes drills that size to drill thru also. Thia stuff is easy to find. It's part of your job as a machinist. Ask the designer where he came up with that number?
"Billy G"
I have no access to the designer.
I understand that every conceivable size is available through various means - I've searched for and bought them... I have Guhring micro boring bars and their quick connect system, expensive 10.65mm carbide flat bottom drills designed for nylon6... And so on...
My point was - unless you're making some supercalifragilistic space age design, stick to the standards like 99% of the engineers and designers who've grown up a bit. I don't want to deal with some new graduate engineer who feels like being fancy pants and wanting to stretch his engineering legs.
I'm not going to search for and order an expensive drill for a cap that's designed to protect screw threads from chrome application, and you needed a hole to let gasses escape... Give your head a shake and design a hole with standard sizes...
Now I know why I'm happy driving a truck for a living and machining my own projects just for fun!
:smiley_duh:
I totally agree with you Shawn. Now you have another problem -- Making them agree with you.
"Billy G"
I already made the parts, delivered, and moved on. And thanked them for their continued patronage.
Sometimes a guys just gotta gripe about it all.
Quote from: Bill Gruby on May 06, 2024, 08:21 PMYou would have to go pretty far of the topic to be off topic here. We do this quite often. Here Drafting is drafting no matter how you accomplish it the end result is the same.
"Billy G"
Sounds good to me! My kind of forum. :smiley_banana:
Friend of mine just told me about "FreeCAD" (https://www.freecad.org/ (https://www.freecad.org/)). It's a free 3D CAD program. I just downloaded it and will be playing around with it to see how I like it.
He told me it has a lot of tutorials available.
Quote from: Piggiron on May 31, 2024, 02:28 PMFriend of mine just told me about "FreeCAD" (https://www.freecad.org/ (https://www.freecad.org/)). It's a free 3D CAD program. I just downloaded it and will be playing around with it to see how I like it.
He told me it has a lot of tutorials available.
Thanks. I did download it and over the coming weeks I'll investigate and noodle around. Who knows where it goes?!?!?
I should have narrowed my title a little by indicating CAD software for home shop use. I won't. Keep the comments coming! All are good one's.
Ken
I watched a suggested YouTube video on free CAD programs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J--QVhGheP4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J--QVhGheP4)
One of the programs he discusses is Ondsel ES. According to him, it's a business owned program that still free, based on FreeCAD, but not open source like FreeCAD. His opinion is that Ondsel ES is more intuitive and easier to use than FreeCAD.
If you want to listen yourself, there are hyperlinked time stamp in the video description. Just click the time stamp for a particular program.
Here's the timestamp for Ondsel ES.
14:57 Ondsel ES (built on FreeCAD)
Concerning FreeCAD, I found a YouTube channel with an extensive amount of video tutorials I'm currently watching.
Here's the channel link: https://www.youtube.com/@MangoJellySolutions/featured (https://www.youtube.com/@MangoJellySolutions/featured)
Here's the Play list link I'm watching: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWuyJLVUNtc0UszswD0oD5q4VeWTrK7JC (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWuyJLVUNtc0UszswD0oD5q4VeWTrK7JC)
Quote from: Piggiron on Jun 03, 2024, 07:15 AMConcerning FreeCAD, I found a YouTube channel with an extensive amount of video tutorials I'm currently watching.
Here's the channel link: https://www.youtube.com/@MangoJellySolutions/featured (https://www.youtube.com/@MangoJellySolutions/featured)
Here's the Play list link I'm watching: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWuyJLVUNtc0UszswD0oD5q4VeWTrK7JC (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWuyJLVUNtc0UszswD0oD5q4VeWTrK7JC)
I've been watching the above linked tutorial while designing a part as I follow the tutorial. While the video series is fairly recent, the current version of FreeCAD has changed it from what's shown in the videos.
For instance, the "Edit Controls" in the Combo View Box is no longer there in the newer version (v-V 0.21.2).
I also found the toolbar for Padding (additive & subtractive) are not there, by default. To add them, hover mouse pointer over toolbar area, right click, and select "Customize". Select "Toolbars" and use the Catagory drop down box to select "Part Design". There you can select all the tools you want and name the toolbar what you want.
Jimmy,
The first chance I get, I'll download the program and give it a try.
Work been busy and I'm trying to get some things done in the shop, too. But keep the cards coming. It's all much appreciated, Ken
It's been quite a steep learning curve for me with my computer/program skills being self-taught or shown by co-workers. Up til now, eMachineShop free, 2D CAD program is all I've ever used.
I almost decided to swap over and try Ondsel ES, based on the video I posted about earlier, but I tend to stick with open source programs when available due to the fact that as time goes by, the business supplied, free programs tend to evolve into having less functionality while the open source ones tend to increase in functionality.
The only downside is what I'm experiencing now. The video tutorial series videos are only a year or two old, yet some of the things discussed are already obsolete due to new versions of the program being released.
Instead of cluttering up this thread, I decided to create a new thread for my journey into FreeCAD with the plan to post differences between the video tutorial and the latest version of FreeCAD along with answers/solutions I find or figure out along the way.
I've been researching this a bit to help someone at work.
Onshape has a free version for Hobbyist users, and is well regarded. I intend to download it and try it, just to see how it is. Onshape requires cloud conectivity.
Solidworks for makers is significantly less expensive than Fusion, and allows you to install and store files locally.
I use Inventor and Solidworks every day, and Inventor doesn't even hold a candle to Solidworks. Autodesk products are about 10 years behind Solidworks.
Frankly, for a LOW COST CAD for home use, I recommend Solidworks for Makers. That's the direction I'll go when I can't afford 2.5K a year for engineering software.
Pity Solidworks have done such a crap job marketing their maker edition really.